TDV: First of all I'd like to thank you for taking the time to do this interview. I have the impression you live a fairly busy life.
Sartan: Quite, and my pleasure.

TDV: Let's start with a bit about who Sartan is? We know you're a dominant, when did you discover BDSM and how did you make your first initial steps into this lifestyle?
Sartan: I discovered BDSM (in the form of bondage) in college, age 18. First steps were with a kinky girlfriend who knew marginally more than nothing, and so on. I eventually connected with what turned out to be a thriving underground SM community in the relatively small college town in question. Nothing very sophisticated, but a nice broad collection of folks... straight, gay, lesbian, everything in-between. Pretty tame stuff compared to the later SM in my life, But very exciting at the time.

TDV: It's all a matter of experience isn't it? What starts out as WOW is tame after a few years.
Sartan: Definitely true. I (now) would have freaked the holy shit out of myself (then).

TDV: LOL I can relate to that funny enough. Do you lean towards S&M or more D/s? Or do you have a preference at this point in your life?
Sartan: Well, Jenni and I D/s 24/7, to a fairly extreme extent by general standards. Nothing "whips & chains" all of the time... purely power dynamics. Subtle enough that our kids just think we're weird that way... like the previous generation, if you will. I see SM as a point activity, something one does once in a while... at least that's the way it is for us.

TDV: Can you give us some examples of what you have set up at home that keeps the power exchange element alive? I ask because having children around the home seems to be a big issue for most people.
Sartan: I guess I look at power quite a bit differently that most people. I make the decisions, or specifically delegate the decisions. We don't really do anything in the way of kneeling and things of that sort... trappings. It's the "king of the castle" model of power, maybe.

TDV: So it's a like a framework for you, you run the show and set the parameters?
Sartan: I'm having a tough time parsing "framework" into this context. It's like slavery, I suppose. I say, she does. I say "take care of X", she sees to it X is taken care of. I manage the finances, provide for the family, and so on. She serves.
TDV: By framework, I think I mean what you just said. You have set parameters that Jenni works within.
Sartan: OK

TDV: Moving on to something you are 'known' for at this point, what turned you towards making your own equipment?
Sartan: Lack of any other option! We were in a rather rural midwestern setting. there wasn't such a thing as the Internet, and there sure as heck wasn't a bondage gear store within a hundred miles. I had always enjoyed making things. My father was a master carpenter and semi-professional gunsmith, and from the time I was tall enough to see the top of the table saw he was showing me things. He had an awesome ethic, a craftsmanship, to his work. My first toys were actually a commercial venture. Restraints made from carpeting -- which was highly available -- and plate staples. CarpetCuffs, restraints for the student body... zinger at marketing even then.
TDV: I'm thinking 'rug burn'...
Sartan: They didn't sell very well.... lol! The carpet chaffed.
TDV: LOL
Sartan: Since then, I've made pretty much every piece of gear I own. I have a few floggers by famous folks, and one or two somewhere by not-so-famous folks, but piles and piles of my own work.

TDV: How did you learn the 'leather craft'?
Sartan: All along the way, I've been learning. Probably those silly kits in Cub Scouts, then those silly kits at home, then some more daring efforts like a saddle. Everything I learned as a kid applied directly to kinky leatherworking. More important to me was the design side. The vast majority of my designs are original, although I couldn't say for most of them that I was the first originator. That, to me, is the really fun part. See body, envision position or restraint or location, and then make it so in the most practical, comfortable, and effective way possible.

TDV: And you do 'at home' testing?
Sartan: Of course, on both myself and Jenni. There are days that find me hanging inverted in our closet playroom by one ankle restraint. Just part of the process.

TDV: So your designs come from 'your head' as opposed to formal training from a design or engineering background of some sort?
Sartan: Most definitely. My head, my vision, and loads of experience trying things. The really new ground, like the Spank-O-Matic, I do lots of simple, quick prototypes. I went through a couple dozen different ways to make a paddling motion before selecting the mechanism design for the final unit. I do the same in leather.

TDV: Where did the idea come from the Spank-O-Matic? Was it a progression from the Fucking Machines?
Sartan: I really have no idea. It's been in my head for a few years at least. A machine that spanks. I finally decided one day to start sketching. A few days later I started prototyping. Smashed the first full prototype to bits in a blaze of destructive glory, did two more full prototypes to get things just right, then the final deal.

TDV: lol - I'm not even going to ask how you 'tested' that machine...
Sartan: why not? On myself, actually.
TDV: Now I didn't expect that answer.
Sartan: Jenni absolutely hates wooden paddles... past trauma. Wooden striking implements are something I'm quite cautious about. Plus, I really didn't have that great an idea what the thing was going to do (first test was of the second prototype). I wouldn't put anyone else in front of it.

TDV: Is the force adjustable? The speed?
Sartan: Both, yes. It doesn't get up past about 4 on the single stroke power meter... but it's a different kind of spanking. 80 swats a minute, 40 per cheek, each hitting exactly the same spot. It builds up the pain in a way a human spanking can't. Version 2, presently under development, is going to be the power hitter. It's designed to hit about as hard as a person can.

TDV: What made you move towards making 'mechanical' devices?
Sartan: I've always loved machines. The erector set was my favorite childhood toy by a long shot. I made motorized everything as a kid. It's a natural extension into the sexual arena, particularly when most mechanized sex toys are junk.

TDV: It sounds to me like you've managed to take many of the activities you enjoyed as a kid and put them to a great use as an adult. Not many people can say that.
Sartan: I agree with you. By the way, I still do kid stuff, too Made a go-kart out of a riding lawnmower last year, a 5 horsepower scooter from my kid's old kickboard style scooter the year before that... and so on.

TDV: You appear to have a pretty solid knowledge of engines, is that all self taught as well?
Sartan: Mostly. I did a summer working for a lawnmower repair guy when I was in high school... he was an old wizard type, and imparted lots of knowledge about small gas engines. I had already played around a lot by then, though, and lots more since. The gas powered fucking machine is another one of those floating-around ideas It'll definitely happen, too.

TDV: You sell various types of Fucking Machines, what are the major differences between them?
Sartan: Style, of course, and capabilities/features. I classify the attributes of Fucking Machines in five dimensions, which I'll try to remember off the top of my head:
Performance (stroke speed/length)
Durability
Flexibility (how many positions can it accommodate)
Noise
Portability
Every machine in existence (so far... hint!) is a compromise between these factors. I offer a wide range of models not only so folks can get something that meets their personal aesthetic, but so they can balance their own needs and intended uses.
Me, for example, I play here at home, for the most part, and generally in the same room where I store most of my own collection. Portability isn't a big factor, but performance tops my list. With kids around, noise is also a biggie for me.

TDV: Now do you assist potential purchasers in deciding what is going to serve the purposes best?
Sartan: Most definitely. I have email conversations run on for weeks and dozens of messages, and phone calls of an hour or more for just that purpose. I also work diligently to provide plenty of information on the website. Most people, I think, are more comfortable reading and making their own decision.

TDV: Your websites. It appears to me that shopping on any of your sites is a very personal experience. At least as personal as people want it to be. Is that fair to say do you think?
Sartan: Very fair. I certainly don't make a pretense that I'm some big corporate entity. I'm just me. I write the site, answer emails, and craft custom sex toys. If folks want to interact with me directly, that's cool, to whatever depth they're after. I'm interested in building great toys, and providing my customers with exactly what they want.

TDV: Do you have anybody help you in the construction of any of your products? It's clear everything is hand made.
Sartan: Sort of. I use a machine shop for a couple of parts that are just too time consuming to make myself, have to control the costs, and admit that their computer-controlled equipment is more accurate than my "Sartan-controlled" versions! Also, I have a shop that does my powder coating. I don't have -- and don't want -- a 400-degree oven big enough to bake my parts. Other than that, I hand craft damn near everything. right down to the custom fittings on the grip-style wrist suspension cuffs (the finest in the land, IMO)

TDV: I was looking at the grip style cuffs - Great design!
Sartan: Thank you. One of my better innovations, I think. The conical cuff body makes a huge difference in comfort, and was one of those "well duh!" things.

TDV: I became aware of you through your 'do it yourself' site, what made you decide to start up that site?
Sartan: Yeah, good question. In the mid 90's or so, I have a leather business. Sartan's Affordable Leather. A little side thing, mostly for fun while I did my consulting thing professionally. I thought it would be a good marketing approach... provide DIY information, people would see the effort and upfront investment, and decide to buy instead. Turns out I found the DIY site more fun! I let Affordable Leather peter away, and put in the time to grow WWL and later BDSM Workshop. I find supporting folks who want to make their own gear very fulfilling... not terribly profitable, in any but a spiritual sense.

TDV: I know many many people who have used your site over the years.
Sartan: Yes. I get a handful of messages daily from around the world about the DIY stuff.

TDV: What would you say is most important consideration for people who are considering making some of their own leather gear?
Sartan: Good question. Balance - between skills, patience, and standards. Someone who insists on sharp and perfect looking gear had best be willing to develop the skills and work with the care required to build such equipment. The other important thing - there is a unique sense of satisfaction that comes with using something built with your own two hands. At least for some people, and at least some of the time. For those folks, it's irreplaceable.

TDV: Just to tie up this interview I'd like to ask you this: As a dominant who has been in the lifestyle for a while, can you give others any words of wisdom as they pursued their interests in BDSM? Things to avoid, things that you found particularly helpful?
Sartan: My top advice is to look inside first, to the exclusion of all else. Understand and become comfortable with yourself... who you really are, as opposed to who you think you are. Everything else will fall into place. Be willing to break "the rules," because they aren't rules.

To avoid... don't buy into something as gospel solely because "everyone" buys into it as such. I guess that goes with "the rules"

TDV: Excellent advice! Thanks so much for spending your time here tonight.
Sartan: My pleasure